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4.1

Based on 313 opinions finded in 2 websites

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Nº 153 in 339 in Tonbridge and Malling

Nº 3 of 18 Chinese in Tonbridge and Malling

CUSTOMERS TALK ABOUT DISHES WITH..noodlesfriedbeanribssoupcookedchickenporkduckprawnrice

comment_iconOpinions

This is the worse chinese I have had, I struggle to give 1 star, food was tasteless no season, chow mein was over cooked therefore stuck together, no flavours duck was so fatty, I have photo proof, over price and we chucked the whole meal away So Bad

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Karen Aldred . 2024-12-08

MORE AT Google

The lady who served me was so friendly and professional. I had Tom Yum soup which was lovely.

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Hattie Jade . 2024-12-01

MORE AT Google

Disappointing. Visited on a Sunday. Starter was good, but main dish was poor and lacking in flavour or spice. Staff had to be prompted to take our order, and everyone, customers and staff, were wearing coats, showing how cold it was.

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Keith Spink . 2024-11-19

MORE AT Google

The Honeymoon has served consistently excellent food for many years. Well done Jimmy, Isabella & Team our Chinese Takeaway Meal tonight was SENSATIONAL!

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David Coatsworth . 2024-11-09

MORE AT Google

We picked this restaurant as it had 4* on Trip Advisor but were very disappointed. The duck was fatty as were the ribs and everything else was just fairly bland and average.

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Katie B . 2024-11-01

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Has gone downhill quick. Used this restaurant over the last 2 years but food is below par now. Would not recommend and don’t waste your money on food that is not cooked properly.

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Andrew D . 2024-10-12

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Best Chinese in town by far. Staff are always accommodating and very friendly. The food is amazing, well worth a visit if you're staying in town or a night in.

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john constable . 2024-10-07

MORE AT Google

Table of 12 and service and food were excellent..great night enjoyed by all. Thankyou honeymoon!

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Barry Marshall . 2024-07-24

MORE AT Google

Eat in or take away, always had great food from here especially the past few months. Easily the best sweet and sour chicken Hong Kong style iv ever had!

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Andrew Valron Bruce . 2024-07-17

MORE AT Google

Had a very basic meal ,starter, rice ,main dish,and a can of coke,all very good until I got the bill. £26.60.the lady that gave me the bill told me she hadn't added a service tip. Way too expensive Won't be going there again unless I win the lottery.

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Roy Lines . 2024-06-29

MORE AT Google

Excellent sized portions, flavour and service. Thank you.

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James Norton . 2024-06-22

MORE AT Google

I always use this restaurant for my takeaways and food is always really tasty! I have not had a meal sitting in the restaurant hence my 3 star for atmosphere, however am sure it would be fab. I know they sometimes have a theme night too such as Elvis tribute etc

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Rachel Gray . 2024-05-26

MORE AT Google

I did the research to find what looked like a nice Chinese restaurant near the station and came across Honeymoon. I went out of my way to get there believing they would be open at 5:30pm, waited 15 mins, as arrived early, to then notice within a decorative poster among a window full of menus and advertising that they were closed for over a week.

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Red Panda . 2024-05-22

MORE AT Google

Had a Family and friends meal at the restaurant yesterday and both the meal and service were excellent. The food was full of flavour and the portion size was very good. I have now booked another table for tomorrow based on our experience yesterday and I’m sure I will be eating there a few more times while on holiday in the UK.

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Mike Lipscombe . 2024-05-06

MORE AT Google

Sadly this was the worst takeaway i've had in a long time , greasy & very little flavour, spare ribs didn't taste very nice at all. Won't use it again on this experience.

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Darren Somerton . 2024-04-23

MORE AT Google

Made a big order over the phone and the lady was lovely and friendly. However they would not deliver to Paddock Wood and one of our dishes was missing

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Nikki . 2024-03-10

MORE AT Google

I love this place, have been going for years, the best Chinese food around.

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Dave Wright . 2023-12-11

MORE AT Google

Felt good visiting an authentic srilanka restaurant after so long it was a great experience with all the friendly staff and ambience is really cozy and good felt like eating home food I would Recommend everyone to give it a try

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Nagarajah T . 2023-11-15

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Been trying to find a better Chinese restaurant in the Tonbridge area for years - failed. Always come back here. The food is excellent, staff are lovely, location perfect (next to the station). Can’t count how many times we have eaten here as a couple, then a family, with friends and now again as a couple. From the starters to the drink nothing is reduced in quantity. Food is always fast to arrive. Always hot. Always full of flavour. The menu is varied, they cater for allergies well and everything is so very clean. By far a 10/10 and in all the years of take-away and sit in we have never had a problem or a bad meal. Pretty impressive. Try and enjoy.

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Graham B . 2023-11-10

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Delicious - best takeaway we’ve had for a good while. Tasted lovely and fresh - not too salty, not too sweet. Thanks Honeymoon!

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Hannah Millican . 2023-09-30

MORE AT Google

Fantastic food and drinks and great service friendly staff

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Ian Constable . 2023-09-18

MORE AT Google

Amazing food and a friendly atmosphere.

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Gemma Baxter . 2023-09-02

MORE AT Google

Great food, misunderstanding over my daughters order and a previous person not turning up with the same name to collect and pay for an order. Once daughter did turn up, it was all sorted very quickly.

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Loraine Robinson . 2023-08-31

MORE AT Google

This is my local Chinese Restaurant and it is always our go to place for celebrations when we are at home. The place does lovely food, always fresh, and well seasoned and plenty to take home after (we have it for next day’s lunch. This time we went to celebrate my birthday and Isabella Jimmy and their team always go out of their way to make us feel special. This time round there was a happy birthday banner and some flowers on the table. Isabella suggested an off-menu dish that went with my usual flavour profiles and it was delicious. A different take on a rice dish with a lamb mussaman. A nice surprise at the end was a cake. Isabella taught me the tradition of serving a slice to my husband, then a slice to myself and then a third slice to someone else. Lucky Jimmy got the third bit! Price for the dinner is always reasonable too. Thanks again Jimmy and Isabella!

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ptbird66 . 2023-08-24

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Always good food and always receive a great welcome and it's nice that they remember customers

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Debbie Sims . 2023-08-16

MORE AT Google

We ave been eating here for years and it remains the best Chinese restaurant in Tonbridge by a mile. Every part of the meal, from the starters through to the mains was delicious and the service was, as always, effficient and friendly.

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dispeg . 2023-07-09

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Fantastic restaurant. A little pricey but the food is absolutely top-notch. The staff are really lovely... This was my first date with my new girlfriend and the staff were really good about it. They even started playing some romantic music, just for us... We have decided that it is "our restaurant". Thank you, Honeymoon Restaurant!! Btw, we got married nearly 2 years ago !!

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drtimsmith . 2023-06-25

MORE AT Google

Food is good with a fair range of vegetarian options. We've only had takeaways so can't comment on the restaurant.

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David . 2023-06-25

MORE AT Google

Sorry to say but was really disappointed with the last order. The chicken balls were so greasy I couldn’t eat them, the noodles were the greasiest I’ve ever seen, the duck was incredibly fatty and it wasn’t cheap either. Ive has much better Chinese before from here but this latest one was a real disappointment.

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Jordan Cannon . 2023-06-04

MORE AT Google

The staff are very friendly. The food is delicious. My friends and I make sure we book and go every month.

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Tracey Poulter . 2023-05-17

MORE AT Google

Hugely disappointed with the food - tasteless and greasy.

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Sue Bear . 2023-05-08

MORE AT Google

Great food great service great atmosphere can't fault it

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steven fuller . 2023-04-23

MORE AT Google

Exelent food. Friendly service. Pity about the high service charge that I thought was illegal to charge anymore.

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Susan Beach . 2023-03-17

MORE AT Google

We moved from Tonbridge 13 years ago, first to Bexhill and now to Mavern and we haven't found a Chinese takeaway as good let alone a dine-in restaurant. Hence, when my husband's birthday came round this year we made the three-hour journey to Tonbridge, stayed at the Premier Inn and enjoyed a lovely meal at the Honeymoon. Can't be beaten in our view. Pity there weren't more people!

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Inspiration394461 . 2023-03-04

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Excellent Chinese near the station in Tonbridge. This was our first visit to the Honeymoon, but certainly won’t be our last. Friendly staff, lovely food, nice sized restaurant, not too loud, and good value for money. We went with Set Menu B which consisted of mixed hors d’oeuvres for starter, crispy duck & pancakes for the middle course, and beef with ginger and spring onions, sweet & sour chicken, and chicken in black bean sauce, and egg fried rice as the mains. Definitely recommend.

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boopboopdedoop . 2023-03-04

MORE AT TripAdvisor

The food is fantastic and reasonably priced. But my biggest bug was the service as it was very rushed and felt hurried and rushed out of the door. Not giving time to enjoy the food.

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Steven Lawler . 2023-02-19

MORE AT Google

We had an evening meal at the Honeymoon for the first time a number of months ago when we moved into the area. The meal and the service in the packed restaurant were superb. I had one of the best Hot and Sour soups I've had in a long time, a perfect balance of ingredients and a well judged level of sourness that did not mask all the delightful flavours. The only disappointment was their special seaweed - too sweet. The helpings of food were far bigger than expected and so we over-ordered the food. That put the bill on the high side of what we would normally spend: it would have been enough for three people! My opinion is that the server should have warned us. For our return visit a few days ago we had a soup each and shared one main dish, all perfectly prepared. There were only three or four occupied tables that night so the service, by the owner, was just right and also quite entertaining. The menu is vast with the novel freedom to mix and match meat and preparation style. There are many restaurants in this area of town offering food of diverse ethnicity. This one is excellent and good value when you consider the size of the helpings. Street parking is not much of a problem (and free) after 6pm on week days. At weekends it is more difficult to find a space and perhaps better to seek spaces in a nearby supermarket car park.

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Bernard Jones . 2023-01-22

MORE AT Google

My husband and I often get our Chinese takeaway from the honeymoon, the food tonight was absolutely 10/10! Izzy as always is absolutely fabulous, she recommended a few dishes for us to try which were delicious. Jimmy and Izzy as always you provide a fantastic service and wonderful food. Happy new year to all the team at the honeymoon x

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L4733HImelaniet . 2023-01-04

MORE AT TripAdvisor

I've been coming to dine in and for takeaway for years now and always had a good experience, food is consistently lovely and the staff are so friendly and helpful. Great they do gluten free food too now, they are the only Chinese to do so in the local area I think. Love how family orientated the place is too, I always see the boss and his sons working and speaking to everyone.

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RichardT3602 . 2023-01-01

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Had a takeaway from there, really enjoyed the food and the staff couldn't be more welcoming. Will be back for sure

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WSG Steve . 2022-12-31

MORE AT Google

Had a very nice meal with the family for my mother in laws birthday. A very relaxed atmosphere and were looked after very nicely by all of the staff. Food was also lovely and were very full by the end, we all had the set menu and was plenty to go around. Definitely recommend!

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Dan Hoff . 2022-11-09

MORE AT Google

We last visited this restaurant in 2017 and did not enjoy our meal much at all. This time we are really pleased to say it was totally different. We had satay chicken starter which could not have been better. We followed this with Ma Po's Bean Curd which was the best we had tasted in 20 years. We also had sweet and sour Pork HK style which was great. Followed with Banana fritters and Banana in toffee and golden syrup, divine. The service could not have been better very attentive without being too fussy. What a great evening and brilliant value for money. So pleased we went back today. We will be back very shortly

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MrParkMGM . 2022-10-25

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Really good food and very good service.

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Terence Cousins . 2022-09-10

MORE AT Google

I had a meal delivered earlier this evening and had eaten less than 1/3rd of it before it made me violently sick. Obviously something in it, or used in the cooking of it was not up to standard or certainly didn't agree with me? I have telephoned and told them what had happened. By the way, I can't remember the last time I was sick it's so long ago!

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Beryl Walker . 2022-08-27

MORE AT Google

I've had takeaways from there for a long time. But this has to be the worst we've had. The chicken balls look like they had been double fried, you couldn't cut them or eat them.

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A2954GMkarenp . 2022-08-14

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Was fabulous food, friendly service.

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Anne-marie Anderson . 2022-08-06

MORE AT Google

What a great night at this lovely restaurant. This is the best dining experience in a long while. The service is fantastic. Nothing was too much trouble. The food was the best. Will definitely be going back soon.

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Mary Lacey . 2022-08-04

MORE AT Google

Found this restaurant by chance last night and very happy we did. We were very tired so opted for the easy option of Meal A for 2 and it was perfect. We generally don't have rice and they were happy to swap the egg fried rice to our choice of noodles at no extra cost 😉 Great food and great customer service. Will definitely be going there again. Highly recommend 👍 In addition, as it is in town with limited parking, it was great to find they have their own car park behind the restaurant 😊

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Jackie Ansell . 2022-07-31

MORE AT Google

What a gem of a restaurant. Fell upon this restaurant by chance and so happy we did. We arrived tired after a long drive home and decided to take the easy choice of meal A for two. Food was fantastic, great flavours. The set meal had egg fried rice in it, but was substituted for our choice of noodles with no fuss and no extra cost. Great front of house staff, friendly and constantly making sure everything was OK. As this restaurant is in town with limited parking, was good to know they have their own car park at the rear of the restaurant. Most definitely will return and would highly recommend 😋

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Jansell57 . 2022-07-31

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Family of 4, Salt and pepper Ribs straight off the bone and full of flavour, chicken and sweetcorn soup with tender moist large chunks of chicken, hot and sour soup perfectly balanced and great depth of flavour. Satay chicken and butterfly Prawns very well cooked. Duck in plum sauce was delicious too, great find and pretty amazing across the board. Will definitely be back soon

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W D . 2022-07-29

MORE AT Google

One of the best Chinese around. Really friendly and helpful staff.

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James Culmer . 2022-07-19

MORE AT Google

Last week it was a first time I ordered from here the food was horrible, The fish cake was burned and was warm up with microwave and taste nasty. The salt and pepper chips was not fresh looks old and cold. It was the worst Chinese food I ever had what a shame.

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michelle amini . 2022-05-18

MORE AT Google

Just visited 20 of us for my father's 70th birthday. Great fresh (not greasy) food. Very well organised considering the size of our group. Thank you for making our dad's birthday extra special.

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Caroline Hicks . 2022-04-22

MORE AT Google

Not being local we had to rely on the restaurant's reviews and it did not fail. We reserved a table but when we arrived, the restaurant was more or less empty and I wasn't sure whether to leave or stay. We were both so glad we stayed. The food was prepared freshly which was evident in the taste! I have never, ever had crispy beef this crispy and a joy to eat!! The prawns were extremely tasty, the Pad Thai was very good too. To top it all off the restaurant has a car park.at the rear of their shop which is a godsend as the Street has mainly double lines. The service was amazing and even the chef came and said hello too. We hope you enjoy the experience as much as we did!

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Magsgeno . 2022-03-31

MORE AT TripAdvisor

It's decent 'white' Chinese food if you know what I mean. Tried to get them to do me some authentic Chinese food off menu and was told they can only do white Chinese food as Bourne is a 100% non-Asian place. Note I'm rating this like I normally rate Chinese restaurants anywhere from an Asian's perspective.

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Max KS Teh . 2022-02-07

MORE AT Google

All ways a great meal when I've been there, friendly staff and quick service too

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Si Hill . 2022-01-02

MORE AT Google

Wonderful food as always from the Honeymoon Chinese Restaurant. My sister came on her pre-Christmas visit to southern based relatives and we knew just how to spoil her. We tried several new dishes chosen by my sister as well as our tried and trusted favourites - all delicious. My husband has been eating at this restaurant since he was 7 years old so we can recommend them with the benefit of 55 years enjoying their food. Thank you to all the team.

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Aubretia . 2021-12-08

MORE AT TripAdvisor

WORST CHINESE EVER Where do start no flavour cold and undercooked pork that looked like raw fish threw in bin so disappointing will never ever eat here again we ordered this expecting good things through reviews wish we hadn't not worth the money at all

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Chantelle Harper . 2021-12-04

MORE AT Google

Had a wonderful dinner here tonight, food was hot, super tasty and portions were huge - great value!! Definitely will make this place a regular for sit down meals!! Would recommend the aromatic duck and Thai green curry!

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CheeseMiffy . 2021-12-04

MORE AT Google

we ordered from Here expecting good things through reading reviews! Where do I start no flavour cold and undercooked pork that looked so jelly like it could have been mistaken for fish! Will never eat here again three in bin. Food like that should not be served or paid for so disappointed

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Chantelleh74 . 2021-12-04

MORE AT TripAdvisor

We had a lovely meal with family. We were looked after by all the team in the restaurant. Food was very good.

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Paul Russell . 2021-11-27

MORE AT Google

We had a take away Sunday night nice food but it was cold if we order again we like it to be hot ,😔☹️

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W8094SSkerrys . 2021-11-10

MORE AT TripAdvisor

The sweet and sour pork are superb...

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Jackson Hwang . 2021-11-10

MORE AT Google

The food can be nice but 3 chilly’s on the menu does not mean spicy. Needed to add my own fresh chilly’s to up the spice

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Nicholas Smith . 2021-10-01

MORE AT Google

My favourite Chinese restaurant! I have Been multiple times ! The satay is amazing - their tofu is sooo good! Really good for vegetarians 🙌 Plus the staff are always so friendly. Would 💯 recommend!

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josie Jo . 2021-09-24

MORE AT Google

Very friendly and attentive staff !! Very clean restaurant and fantastic fresh food ! Will definitely be returning

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poppyellam . 2021-09-18

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Went in early Sunday evening (5.40pm) stood there for over five minutes to be seated, they were on the phone taking orders we were taken to the table given a menu and told she would be back as she was busy. We waited another 15...

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vanessa1150 . 2021-09-14

MORE AT TripAdvisor

It was such a bad experience. The woman who took our order was rude and blunt. She started telling me how busy she was and I was not allow to ask any questions. I can imagine how busy she is however I am still a...

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YCR1127 . 2021-09-07

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Not sure what going on recently but the service is now just bad.waited well over a hour for cold food Waste of money.

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john Simmons . 2021-09-03

MORE AT Google

Very nice food had a lovely evening

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Ian Laker . 2021-08-17

MORE AT Google

This place is 10 out 10 everything here is on point. The location is handy and most of all great tasting food

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Michael Pointer . 2021-08-16

MORE AT Google

Since moving to Tonbridge in March my wife and I have been looking for a Chinese Restaurant that does delivery and matches up to the one we used in Maidstone. After much online research which proved inconclusive as people’s opinions are subjective and can vary...

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MarkVin1965 . 2021-08-16

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Order was wrong and cold and missing items, they called to say there was items missing which was good but said "oh we will add it next order" when we said about things being wrong they said "oh we will sort it next order" which ment people would have to go without. They where very unhappy about having to send out new food. Overall food was flavourless and bland and cold and greasy will not be going back for another meal very unhappy

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Danny Brown . 2021-08-03

MORE AT Google

Been using this restaurant for years now, almost every Saturday night, never once been disappointed, thought it about time I leave a review.

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lucylou35 . 2021-07-30

MORE AT TripAdvisor

I've been looking for a good Chinese in Tonbridge for a while, I've tried most of them, but they aren't very good; but decided to give Honeymoon a try last night. I went for one of their set dinners and really enjoyed it! Really nice...

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jamiesA797OJ . 2021-07-19

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Great food, great service and reasonably priced. Often grab a takeaway from here and is always cooked quickly.

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Ben Baxter . 2021-07-18

MORE AT Google

Had a lovely meal at short notice, foods fab and staff are really friendly, good value for money, will definitely return

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Donna Jones . 2021-05-28

MORE AT Google

Absolutely delicious. Without a doubt the best Salt & chilli squid I've had. All other dishes were presented well & also tasted amazing. Great friendly service!

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Zuzi Ledger . 2021-05-24

MORE AT Google

Amazing food always! Definitely worth the trip from South London to Tonbridge. I would definitely say this is my favourite Chinese restaurant!

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talia mccann . 2021-05-24

MORE AT Google

I have just been & enjoyed a delicious dinner with my boys. The salt & chilli squid was, without a doubt, the tastiest I have ever had (& I'm an addict of the stuff). All other dishes were also so tasty & beautifully presented. Friendly...

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Zuziwhite . 2021-05-22

MORE AT TripAdvisor

At last, a good Chinese takeaway that does gluten free food, very tasty, will be my go to place from now on.

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Michael Powsey . 2021-05-01

MORE AT Google

Excellent meal - very well priced and good quality, I had the Thai red curry which was a large enough portion for me to have leftovers for lunch the next day! Very quick service - will certainly be ordering again soon!

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Ben Singer . 2021-04-15

MORE AT Google

We really want to support local business but our takeaway meal was awful. We ordered the set Chinese for 2 and ended up binning most of it. The beef was chewy, the ribs greasy, the chicken soggy. It was all served in gloopy tasteless sauces....

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Angela B . 2021-03-28

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Really good service, food was lovely and very reasonable. Thank yoh very much

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Kate M . 2021-02-18

MORE AT Google

Delicious food, great service! Good variety of dishes and quick delivery. Would definitely order from here again.

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acisseji96 . 2021-02-08

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Very high quality Chinese food. In lockdown, so we had a takeaway delivered. Had the A1 menu for two. I love the prawn toasts and the spare ribs. The crispy duck was fantastic and the main meals excellent. So much of it that we had a second dinner the following day. Delicious!

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Nigel Rawlings . 2020-11-30

MORE AT Google

Delivery took 50 minutes to arrive and was cold. Beef dish was slimy and chewy. Would definitely not order from them again.

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pete woronkowicz . 2020-10-29

MORE AT Google

Food was good but the experianc was spoiled by the extortionate price of the beer, cleverly they ask you if you want a drink before you look at the menu. Came out feeling I had been mugged, eat there drink elsewhere

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David Mason . 2020-10-29

MORE AT Google

Greasy food and poor service. There was a short waiter with glasses who was really slow. The decor looks outdated.

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tomjB7251DH . 2020-09-19

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Been going here ever since I moved to Tonbridge a few years ago. Great food, big portions, lovely owners, very reasonably priced too. Their satay sauce is the best I've tried!

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H5956ICrickyt . 2020-08-16

MORE AT TripAdvisor

My favourite Chinese restaurant! The food is delicious, so fresh and tasty! Have been a regular customer for 2 years now and have never been disappointed. The staff are very friendly and the menu is affordable! Highly recommend

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494eleanor . 2020-06-15

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Really nice clean restaurant. Efficient and friendly staff. I’m a coeliac and they were great with advising what was okay for me on the menu and even adapted some dishes for me! Overall, a good, wide variety of Chinese food and well cooked.

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sophiebB4053YM . 2020-06-06

MORE AT TripAdvisor

I ordered a take-away for my family and I and we thoroughly enjoyed every dish! It was really easy to order, the selection of dishes was great and the set meals were ideal for us as we didn't have to argue over what we wanted,...

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eli52017 . 2020-06-03

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Placed a takeaway order and we were blown away by the incredibly tasty food - very fresh and authentic. We ordered the Pad Thai and Thai Green Curry and it was like I was back on holiday in Thailand. Very affordable, with friendly staff, will...

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jackdaniels18 . 2020-06-03

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Desperately craved a Chinese takeaway after lockdown and this place didn’t disappoint! Ordered the A1 for 2 people and everything was so fresh and tasty! Portions were large and non greasy and they were able to cater for my gluten intolerance which I find very...

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Roving697249 . 2020-06-02

MORE AT TripAdvisor

First time having this Chinese after recently moving to tonbridge and was very disappointed with all the food ordered, dont use.

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eddieb700 . 2020-05-28

MORE AT TripAdvisor

Please change your page to inform people that you are completely closed even though it says you are open for deliveries

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Tracey Lester . 2020-05-02

MORE AT Google

Eating in and Takeaway. Are always good.

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Gill Sargent . 2020-03-09

MORE AT Google

First timer and what a gem. Don't be fooled by appearance, food was superb and really friendly

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Graham Williams . 2020-02-23

MORE AT Google

Good food but shambolic home delivery. Driver couldn’t find our house. Delivery one item short. Then argued about it 🙄

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Trevor B . 2020-02-11

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3.9

1093 Opinions

location-icon96 High Street
Chinese
outdoor_seating_158508takeaway_158508delivery_158508

Poor food, cold, didn’t care when I queried the quality. Disgraceful service

restaurant_img
3.9

89 Opinions

location-icon11 Wrotham Road,
Chinese
outdoor_seating_185952takeaway_185952delivery_185952

Roast pork fried rice my fav ..... must try